Originally by: Clay101

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OK! So add a gun slot and remove a missile slot to an already cap-unstable recon?! Not smart. And before someone starts whining to me about skills ... I fly Amarr and have for the past 5 years, I trained all of the related Cap skills to 5 years ago.

CCP, you're missing something I do believe. There are already items in-game to counter ECM ... it's called ECCM - Why not just give those a slight boost? Sure your tank on your ship will be a bit weaker, but that's the luxury of being 95% sure you won't be jammed ... right? (Seems like an obvious solution as you've done the same for warp scrambling ... see warp core stab)

Clay101

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Originally by: VB Sarge

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Please, let the Falcon be the "snipe" jamming ship, but keep them at least in line with all other recons as far as range goes. 60k is still a virtually untouchable range. Very few ships can hit effectively at that range, and it's right on the cusp of Drone control range with max skills.

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Originally by: Marco Ragnos

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Edited by: Marco Ragnos on 26/03/2009 23:15:54
This is how you "Fix" the falcon.

1) operate more in falloff which means that your jam isnt always 100%, and you risk more the farther you go.

2) boost Eccm (what you dont want to fit one? sorry, tough luck, take off one of your precious sensor boosters, you killmail W h O r E)

What you guys are doing is very ...silly to say the least.

NO matter what bonus you give the falcon, its going to get smoked anywhere near 100km off targets. In 0.0 space, most entities fly sniper hacs... Zealot, muninn, cerb will own the falcon at those ranges. Id say if you have to mess up the falcon that bad, at least make it able to jam at a distance that would put it out of reach of snipe hacs. I guess in BS fleets, the falcon wont be able to do much except keep support away from your battleships...i guess we'll have to use the scorp for...oh wait...the scorp is a "brawler" too now.

While im on the topic of failed ideas...SB? TORPS? no please, just no

also while im here, fix the pilgrim, and the arazu

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Originally by: Karlemgne

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Stuff and nonsense

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Originally by: Ellatan Deruimte

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Originally by: Johan Sabbat

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Edited by: Johan Sabbat on 27/03/2009 21:32:50

Originally by: Karlemgne

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Stuff and nonsense

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So you're bitter because ECM affects your chosen play style?

ECCM does work, pop it on a Cerberus and snipe those Falcons. You'll soon scare them away.

I look forward to your new world of low-sec pvp; RR BS ftw...

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A Hac with eccm can be easily jammed, again not saying permajammed, but 2 out 3 cycles at best. Tested on an ishtar with eccm, not reliable at all.

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Originally by: TheLibrarian

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I think the real question is how do you keep your cerberus alive vs the other entire gang that is primarying it because your shooting at their falcon. Oh thats right about 5-10 seconds.

You can theory craft all you want. I fly falcons. In low sec you cannot die in a falcon unless the gang knows all 3-4 of your jamming spots that you have made on nearly every gate/station you fight on.

Dont be foolish, nearly everyone has trained for a falcon for this very reason. I am fine if ccp nerfs my 3-4 months of training for the only ship I fly that I hate flying. The only reason I even use a falcon is to fit 2 ECCM and 4 caldari jammers to jam other falcons.

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Originally by: Karlemgne

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Yeah, my epic pownagemobiles get nerfed by fitting 2 ECCMs in the following way: I cannot tackle anyone.

The state of low-sec pvp is great right now with ECM the way it is.
Fewer fights, bigger ships (because bigger ships are the only ships with sensor strengths big enough to counter a Falcon with ECCM), fewer losses and kills in fights, etc.

Yep. Yeah ECM.

-Karlemgne

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Originally by: Ankor Gamoodi

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Heres my dilemma , I too have been spending a lot of training time toward something that is going to be rendered useless. We already have to devote a low slot to warp stabilizing so why don't we force a passive anti-ecm mid slot to counter potential jamming or would that be too easy.nerfing is not the answer a counter is but its too inconvienant for those who don't want to devote another slot to thier survivability outside shield and armor. Lets face it this nerf is for the whining gate campers who get caught w/ their pants down. And for a change leave some way for the 'care bears' to defend themselves, not all of us want to pvp all the time!

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Originally by: Destructor1792

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No.2 : ECCM - Pretty much useless - enough posts on the forums about this so won't bother with details.

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Originally by: Destructor1792

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Edited by: Destructor1792 on 28/03/2009 16:03:45

Originally by: Johan Sabbat

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Originally by: Destructor1792

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No.2 : ECCM - Pretty much useless - enough posts on the forums about this so won't bother with details.

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I totally disagree with point 2.

IF you fit the correct racial ECCM, turn it on and still get 'perma-jammed' then it means the jamming ship is devoting a large proportion of its jamming capacity against you.

This leaves your mates to go about ganking his gang.

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And herein lies the problem.. The Mythical Perma Jam which apparently doesn't happen but we all know does.
In theory, by overloading said ECCM should counter this, but doesn't! No other module ingame has this ability to stop your victim (soz, target) from fighting back once a successfull hit has been achieved.

FOF;s could be a choice but are highly unpredictable and are only good if you have launchers fitted (which rules out about 90% of PVP ships) & also have the issue of lack of range.
iir, they also go for the nearest hostile near you (which in itself can cause alot of problems )

Drones are the same & are only good if the jammer is in your drone control range & you've got them about before he gets a jam on you. Also, they've a habit of doing their own stuff which can cause you even more problems

This leads to one of 2 conclusions, either ECCM is underpowered or ECM is overpowered!!

**edited bit**

Arakkis, this is a problem all ships have when dealing with EWAR ship bonuses that rely heavily on mid slot fits. Take the rapier for example, It has to sacrifice a few mids to fit a few buffers for the shield. Could go armour, but have u seen its stats??!!

If people choose to fit all mid slots for Ewar instead of sacrificing the odd slot, that's down to their own choice. Not much we can do about that

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